NSCA Sues CrossFit Over Injuries Claims in Devor Study


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NSCA Sues Crossfit Over Injury Claims in Devor Study

Video taken from the channel: Marc Lobliner

November 5, 2016 Marc Lobliner. NSCA Sues CrossFit Over Injury Claims in Devor Study. It is rare when I admit I might have been wrong. But when I am wrong, I admit to it.

A year ago when I did a video stating injury rates in CrossFit, I might have jumped the gun. The NSCA has filed suit for Trade Libel, Defamation and Unfair Business Practices in the State of California. Basically, Crossfit exposed why they feel NSCA is a shady organization and why this.

It is taken as established that the NSCA had a commercial motivation for making the false statement in the Devor Study ( ) that the NSCA made the false statement in the Devor Study with the. The two corporations have been at it for years over a false study published in 2013 claiming that CrossFit was dangerous. Related: “Federal Judge Delivers Another Blow to NSCA” In this motion, CrossFit is seeking back the cash it spent “litigating the NSCA’s lies” over the years, on the basis it uncovered “misconduct of unprecedented proportions.”. In 2013 the NSCA published a study concluding that CrossFit was dangerous and exaggerated claims of injury. CrossFit knew the study and the underlying data was false, the NSCA didn’t back down so lawyers got involved. “The NSCA study reported that 16 percent injury rate without the slightest base of evidence.

CrossFit, Inc. sued the NSCA after the NSCA published a “scientific” study containing false and fabricated data about CrossFit’s injury ratethat was designed specifically to harm CrossFit’s business and reputation. Additionally, as elaborated in CrossFit, Inc.’s. Published: NSCA published the Devor study in their Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research.

The NSCA admits this fact. Fabricated injury data: Every subject the Devor study claimed cited “overuse or injury” for failing to complete the study has sworn to the court that the claim was false. They were not injured by the CrossFit affiliate training in the study and did not tell the researchers they were, either.

The judge was asked by both CrossFit and NSCA to decide certain issues in advance of a trial by a jury. On CrossFit’s motion, the judge decided one issue in CrossFit’s favor: that the injury data reported in the Devor Study was not correct. In 2013, after Devor went silent about the injury data in his CrossFit study, Berger emailed the NSCA with his concerns, to no response. Then he got on the phone with William Kraemer, a big shot in the NSCA who, since 1987, had been the editor-in-chief. CrossFit representative contacts Steven Devor to note inaccuracies with the JSCR study that claims 16% of participants dropped out because of “overuse or injury.” May 23, 2013 CrossFit representative emails NSCA to note falsities in Devor study that was done in partnership with CrossFit 614.

NSCA does not respond. October 2013 CrossFit representative calls JSCR editor and CHAMP paper author William.

List of related literature:

The only outcome measure in this study was anterior tibial displacement, which was not significantly different at the conclusion of the 4-week training period.

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Next, the athlete lifts one knee while the examiner still has their hands on the iliac crests and posterior iliac spines.

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At this point, the trainer can make the decision to either continue with fitness testing or insist on medical clearance from the member’s physician.

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The NMC within their 2014–2015 Fitness to Practice Annual Report provided no explanation for the increase in misconduct cases.

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However, the weight of evidence to support treadmill training in neurorehabilitation is becoming impossible for physiotherapists to ignore.

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Indeed, the original complaint alleged that participation in the exercise program was mandatory, and that the injury was caused by defendant’s failure to “properly supervise and/or instruct plaintiff….”

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Only Sieracki and USAW appeared at this arbitration hearing, and the arbitrator ordered USAW to ignore the first arbitration hearing.

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If a decision is made that the concerns do question a registrant’s fitness to practise, the case is reviewed by the GDC Registrar and, where appropriate, referred to the Investigating Committee.

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Schreiber, J., first noted the tension between Cardozo’s opinions in MacPherson and Ultramares, and then insisted that privity should not be a barrier to misrepresentation claims any more than claims arising from physical injury.

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Results of one study of injuries to the spine during trampoline activity showed no evidence that the participants were unfit for the activity, but rather that each injury was the result of instructor negligence.”

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Alexia Lewis RD

Registered Dietitian Nutritionist and Certified Heath Coach who believes life is better with science, humor, and beautiful, delicious, healthy food.

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  • Everyone gets injured all the time. The only reason why you hear about crossfit is cause they have the games and they make it known. However I worked at a gym front counter and when a bro would get injured on a bench press we would just say ok we dont log it and call it la fitness injury or goldsgym injury

  • I just started NASM CPT and CNC. I’m more into nutrition really. But I was going to complete an A.A in Health & Human Performance then move into a Bachelor’s in Dietitcs. Good move? All these certs are a might bit confusing.

  • Great vid as always, as far as the camera is concerned the image quality looks better the lighting was a lil off. Audio sounded echoey and at times had a whistling noise but like you said you testing things out

  • Nothing wrong with crossfit, it’s the fact the some of the trainers teach and continue to let people use shit form with heavy weight

  • Just tell the truth! It always works. Sound quality isn’t way the best, but who cares. I don’t follow for the sound quality. Keep up the motivation.

  • So as men who both spent time in the U. S. MILITARY….this is something we all saw, and dealt with on a daily level…some ass kissing suck up trying to promote themselves. ( get promoted ) by throwing a battle buddy under the bus. ( blue falcon ) Nothing new here….its why i dont trust the police, the government or really any large self serving entity. And the reality of the world is EVERY ORGANIZATION…JUST LIKE EVERY ORGANISM. IS SELF SERVING….that’s why what we learned in the miltary, becomes so important. ( to sacrifice. For someone else ) if you do this…then your not self serving…its either one or the other. Why i watch yor channel. ( Integrity ) you have it….they dont. A piece of paper on a wall. Does not automatically Equal character. Keep doing what you do…I’ll keep watching… Keep it real bro!

  • I enjoy crossfit, but Glassman needs to fuck off from Gatorade & sodas. What the fuck?? He’s even said the government should outlaw the making of such beverages. Get the fuck out of here Glassman.

  • Now bodybuilders and power lifters are finally friends. They hate on crossfiters together. Meanwhile the Olympic Weightlifters continue to keep to themselves.

  • Thank you for not bashing on Crossfit to follow the trend. I was one of them before starting Crossfit and I have a different point of view now, I see the positives and the negatives that are truely there.

  • Writing an article on CrossFit as we speak. Wanted to see if there was anything on video so I could continue researching while I eat and who pops up but this gem from 5 years ago haha. Good stuff coach!

  • As someone with NASM CPT, NFPT CPT, Crossfit L1, and bachelors in exercise science and pre physical therapy degree I’d say CrossFit is just a threat to the rest. Everyone argues the weekend cert thing but honestly the level 1 teaches you hands on more than most certs teach through those big books full of mediocre information. CrossFit isn’t going anywhere. It’s bringing real health and fitness to light.

  • Man, Wife started asking what kind of experimenting are we doing with that hairy big guy in the video. And also asked if that wasn’t just a stage in college.

  • Marc, I gotta say I unsubbed a few months prior because I did not like where the channel was headed. I must say though you really have gone back to your roots and now you’re putting out some great content again. Good work brother, keep it up and stay humble.

  • Sadly, this type of behavior is becoming more and more common among companies and organizations. Just look at the war between Intel and AMD. Intel long reigned supreme in the CPU market, and now that AMD made an impressive come-back, Intel is getting down right nasty and unethical in their responses to AMD’s now superior products. Basically, there’s too many sore losers these days.

  • Additionally, in follow up to my previous comment, one of the biggest reasons why Crossfit comes under fire, is that it tends to consistently work high metabolic and high neural demand activities together. It’s not wrong, per se, but it’s awfully hard for the body to recover from these workouts, and typically you wouldn’t train an athlete this way…you would eventually see diminishing returns and the chance of injury increases. But again, see point number one in my previous comment. Add to this that Crossfit is a huge business selling training, the NSCA sells education. Understandably, Crossfit has a vested interest in enlisting clients regardless of their athletic background or experience, and this could invariably lead to some of the issues already mentioned. I love Crossfit personally, but feel it demands a higher degree of accountability and development from both athlete and coach, which can sometimes be hard to achieve in a rapidly expanding franchise operation.

  • First off, I enjoyed your comments. I think there are a few things to consider here. One is that the success of any exercise or protocol is almost always coaching dependent. So Crossfit or otherwise, if you don’t have the proper technique and coaching, there’s a better chance you’re going to injure yourself. Another thing to look at is the exercise protocol itself. CrossFit has a backbone created around high-intensity movements like Olympic lifting exercises. These are all great exercises, but typically require a greater range of motion, athletic skill and mobility than other types of routines. Personally I would feel uncomfortable receiving coaching in Olympic lifting from someone with less than five years of experience and applied practice in the sport. So it’s not hard to imagine a combination of factors that might potentially lead to more injuries in an environment with a high intensity protocol as its foundation, especially with newcomers who don’t have the requisite background.

  • Thanks for this video. It cleared up what is going on. Have you seen the latest Crossfit video about the lawsuit? It was posted like a week ago.

  • I believe you have not defined crossfire mindset in this lawsuit correctly. Crossfit’s claim is in that study that dr. Devor and dr. Smith who lead the study clearly made up the overuse and injury statement. It was a blind study so it would be impossible to know the reason why they did not continue the study. The journal stated that to be able to publish the study in their journal they would need to add the injury rate to make crossfit appear dangerous. NCSA and ACSM both are competitors of crossfit in the certification business and are trying to become a monopoly by adding bills to make ACSM and ncsa certifications necessary to be a fitness professional. This is obvious by their 350x increase in lobbying budget just as crossfit began to expand and hit 1000 affiliates. The journal has many other study where data is false or spun to make crossfit look ineffective or dangerous. The ACSM and ncsa are both groups that have gotten everything about fitness wrong in the last few decades. The high carb low fat diet that was killing people. The isolation, long slow cardio that is slightly better than a sedintary lifestyle. They can’t even determine how to squat correct. So how can they be the national leaders of certification when they can’t even figure it out

  • I find it interesting that some people in these comments still bashing on CrossFit and saying nothing’s changed. Everything has changed. CrossFit has never been for a beginner. They have always marketed being extreme and for professional athletes, soldiers and people who lead an extremely active lifestyle. You can still not like CrossFit and still recognize they are not as bad for you as you thought. Those two thoughts are not exclusive.

  • Appreciate the opinion, lawsuit will come down to whether or not proper interviewing was done with the 9 people supposedly hurt at the end of the study. As for whether Crossfit is here to stay, I have been doing it for 2.5 years and before that nothing for 41 years. I love it and it has enhanced my life greatly. I am level 2 certified and one race to go to get tri-fecta for Spartan Race….

  • I have just one problem with crossfit; their slogan that they winner of the crossfit games is the fittest person on the planet. It seems that the winners of the crossfit games are professional lifters and when I watched the crossfit games I noticed that the person that won the games hardly ever did any good in various events and really only won due to their ability to lift heavy weights off the ground. Furthermore they only won against other crossfitters and that’s hardly a reason to claim your superiority over the worlds athletes.

  • People need to educate themselves. The Crossfit franchise is just the right to have the Crossfit label. The rest is really up to the owner. Every Crossfit box isn’t the same, it’s not like a gym franchise where every gym has the same equipment, schedule and price. The founder Greg Glassman is a huge believer in competition within his own franchise. He even admits that he’s not going to save a Crossfit affiliate if they do poorly with the community.

  • @Lindsey La Dew Wow Lindsey, well said. I’ve been to some cheer practices and the falls some of these girls take are REALLY hard to watch…same with gymnastics BUT crossfit is the new kid on the team taking all the other kids playing time so this backlash is to be expected. The Kevin Oger thing was a 1 in a million situation yet football players are paralyzed far more frequently. End of the day, as I always say, haters gonna hate, just keep moving forward. 

  • NSCA has been butthurt ever since Glassman started Crossfit. It’s all about money and Crossfit is taking a bite! There’s a timeline showing how much Glassman has been in court battling with these so-called fitness associations but one thing is clear and that’s Crossfit is here to stay and growing daily and it’s because it works.

  • Sound needs clarifying/ cleaning up… video is other exposed and/or bad lighting…

    On Crossfit… for years I have been a defender of crossfit, for all the critique is from back in the OG days and bad coaches from then and now… but in my travels in the military, the wasn’t a single box that I experienced that had bad coaches. A lot of my coaches were degree and cert (CSCS, CPT) holding fitness professionals, who pushed form over everything else. I could go on, but that’ll be an essay… hopefully this allows people to at least do a little deeper research, and maybe go try a session or two before passing judgment…

  • Crossfit is just a brand, a modality of training. It I believe it should never be considered a Certification. It has gained too much publicity because it is advertised by Reebok. The hole thing with “The Brand” is that the NSCA knows better. Health wise I believe X don’t stand a chance. Same thing happened With Zumba, Insanity, P90x, and other quick fix programs. They all go back to the science based evidence. Yes I am also a CPT.

  • I’m NSCA certified and from what I know of Crossfit I seems to piggy back off of NSCA and take ir a stwp further. I think that is ridiculous foe Crossfit to sue NSCA for having a difference of opinion. Anyway Crossfit maybe next generation but NSCA & ACSM will always be the foundation. (Just my opinion)

  • Bullshit I lift weights n did CrossFit. I saw more ppl get injured in CrossFit then anything else. Next would be power lifting. In all fairness most injuries came from timed competitions amongst cross fitters. The same for power lifting trying to break pr’s

  • please do a review on ryan humiston, I kinda cringed when he said dont listen to the studies and literature because the people who did the studies doesnt have the experience, or is it just me that finds that weird?

  • uh lawyer here, if you win a summary judgment it is a final decision, and it is a decision by the Judge that Crossfit won. You can’t appeal a non-final decision except for very specific scenarios. It may have been a Motion for Partial Summary Judgment, but it is the judge making a final decision on that point and ruling that Crossfit won on that point. Damages were not decided, but liability, or wrongdoing, was. NCSA also was found to have committed perjury and destroyed evidence during the ligation process. To such an egregious extent that the Court did not believe the case could move forward and have an actual legitimate trial, because the NCSA was so untrustworthy. I am not a Crossfit participant, but NCSA no longer has any credibility. They even lied in their comment about it. The ruling from the bench couldn’t be any more damning.

  • They have already awarded Crossfit $4,000,000 and that does not include punitive damages. That is yet to be calculated.

    This is going to cost NSCA over 10 million easy.

    I wouldn’t count on them being around much longer.

    Lesson to all those that are falsifying studies. There are many.

  • hey great vid bro! what do you suggest to a 15 year old lad who’s going to college in 1 year times and wants to become a personal trainer and down the line with experience open my own business ( gym ) like what courses to take etc? 

  • With almost a half century of weight training /physical fitness experience,I don’t need anyone to tell me about cross-fit injury rates.
    Life is a marathon.NOT a UFC fight…
    Train accordingly.

  • I want to steal that shirt!
    I am not surprised as many associations that once seemed to care about their mission statements etc. would also do the opposite. Maybe, there will be more exposure of others, so that new and more accountable organizations will not have to resort to similar tactics. Also thanks for sharing the news and disappointment about NSCA.

  • Looks amd sounds ok overall, but the lighting is over exposed. Gives it a quality like you just started this channel. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesnt work when you’re looking to improve.

  • What pursuaded the NSCA to behave this way? The lack of integrity is shocking, but the decision to persist in it for six years and existentially endanger the entire organisation in the face of irrefutable evidence is a complete mystery.

  • So what is the injury rate for crossfit anyway? What’s the result of the study? What is it compared to other sports or activities? I still don’t understand what was the reasoning for the NSCA to mislead the public. What was their gain? ��‍♂️ There’s a lot of really badly ran boxes out there where people are getting injured. Whose fault is that?

  • Bravo Marc, Crossfit has hurt both of my nephews and they still participate sadly. They drank the CoolAid and can’t see the truth.

  • Respect man. some people will turn a blind eye to things like this because of “brand allegiance” ie.. so and so has a cert through NSCA so NSCA can do no wrong. Just as you said nobody is above being held accountable.

  • I want to like Crossfit I do.
    But there are so many issues wlth it.
    No the butterfly pull ups are not better in any way than a regular pull up. That’s not an opinion it’s a fact. So instead of wasting their times with those butterfly pull ups, why not learn to do regular pull ups really fast? It’s gonna give you so much more. Same thing with the Handstand Push ups.
    Why are they insisting on kicking their legs looking like a frog caught upside down?
    Why not learn to do regular Handstand Push ups faster?
    It’s better for you.
    Then there’s the cardio issue. You always hear about how crossfit athletes have soooo good cardio.
    Yet if you watch the Crossfit games you can clearly see that they don’t.
    Take that 7 km run they did at the ranch. Mat Fraser won that and yet he is filmed several times WALKING.
    Walking is not running.
    It doesn’t count.
    A 7 km run consists of 7 km running.
    I can do a 7 km run any day in very steap terrain without stopping and walking once.
    In other words a guy like me, an average joe can do something that the best of the best that crossfit has to offer can’t. Which is to actually run 7 km.
    Another example of bad cardio is that competition they had in Dubai.
    Where they ran 8 km and once again, just like with that 7 km run.
    They stopped several times and walked. They don’t have great cardio. That much is very clear.

  • Dang, I made fun of your audio in an old video yesterday and was hoping you were talking to me in the intro about the audio here… Then I checked the upload date…

    I’m a bit of a narcissist

  • It does sound like you’re in a can. If you could get some sound treatment in your main room, it will make getting the sound quality much easier to dial in. Maybe a little compression just to level off everything. Having your awesome voice and deliberate delivery helps.

  • speaking of the NSCA, why is there S&C cert so respected when other NPAs offer S&C without the need of a bachelors degree? its the same information right?

  • Your audio sounds like it was put through a low-pass filter, ie kinda tinny like an old record. Did you not do research on microphones? Or is it’s setting? Love ya, dude.

  • And yes, I’m definitely looking forward to an increase in the quality (image and sound) of your posts. I really enjoy your videos, but would love to see better lighting and some better sound quality. You give fantastic info and are well spoken and are great with your delivery, just want your videos to have a tad more polish.

  • Better video but you need mic… just cable one and put it around your neck. Even cheap ones will give you great sound…. great content so do not warry about sound to much… keep going, your positive energy is very contagious. THANK YOU

  • My anecdotal evidence tells me that CrossFit injures people. Every single person I know that does CrossFit has had a major injury while doing…CrossFit. Their programming is sh*t.

  • When you coach, train, and compete in CrossFit, get your bachelors in exercise science on Saturday 12/14/19 and scheduled to to take the nsca cscs in January ������ fuckin A

  • Lawyer here. This is not legal advice, but i think an understanding of the actual order is useful from the legal perspective. The findings are not fact and are not established in reality, only under the law. Basically, the judge found that NSCA destroyed evidence during the discovery phase (ie when both side have to exchange information and data before trial), so because they destroyed or withheld evidence that could help or hurt CrossFit, the judge basically is saying that NSCA is sanctioned for not following the rules. The punishment for not following the rules is that certain facts are now considered “established” in CrossFit’s favor ie NSCA and CrossFit can’t debate them anymore. So, going forward, either to litigation or settlement, NSCA can’t say that it’s conjecture that their practices didn’t harm CrossFit and NSCA now owes CrossFit money for the lawyers fees and lost profits related to these issues. It’s not quite the same thing as saying that, Yes NSCA lie because the evidence shows it did. I would guess NSCA is commenting as little as possible to not say something that can be used against them since they are appealing (who wants to pay all that money or have assumptions not in their favor?) So, anyway, this is definitely not established fact against NSCA. I personally don’t care what happens in this case (tho as a lawyer, these sanctions are entertaining because they are very, very serious and you don’t see such a thing often). I hate CrossFit and am weary of any certification because being able to study isn’t the same as actually knowing stuff and applying it to yourself and clients.

  • No credential is worth a bit more than the issuing entity’s integrity.
    Wanna bet no one gets fired?
    Still, the NSCA has a ways to go to keep up with the CRU and Michael Mann.:-(

  • Cool content as always. Any thought on Mike Israetel? In my opinion one of the best things that happened in fitness ‘industry’ and for some reason not so well known as he should be

  • Sound: worse
    Picture: same
    T-shirt: definetly best so far

    For my opinion on Crossfit:
    Oh boi.
    I hate crossfit competitions. I want to peel my eyes out when I see that bad Form jsut because ethe want high numbers.

    Crossfit itself his a great concept WHEN performed correctly.

    What the NSCA pulled up there is pretty much sad to see from such a prestigious institution.

  • you’re a beast bro. this channel is dope I like it a little more than your other cause now you can say literally anything. #ThisAintAGame haha

  • How unnecessary this lying was is extra shameful. Nobody needs studies to say ballistic barbell movements without a trusted professional is a recipe for injury.

    Shame on the NSCA.

  • You need a clearer introduction (of the subject). it always takes me a few minutes to understand what you are talking about or where you are going at with the subject.

  • Sound sounds like it’s coming from your camera. If you have a standalone microphone, you have to figure out what you need to do to get it working (Y)

  • CrossFit as a business organization seems morally questionable to me which is why I could never develop a business relationship with them. I was once a casual admirer, back around 2005-2007, but chose not to follow their training methodology because I found it to be fundamentally flawed. It also seems to me that CrossFit just avoided addressing injury statistic issues with their model by deciding that CrossFit is a “sport” and therefore their injury rates should be compared to competitive sports rather than a fitness or athletic training system.

  • Mike is ok, not the greatest sound quality but it gets the job done. Camera quality isnt professional BUT information is great of courae

  • This sucks….on a side note, be on the lookout for my AlphaEliteMegaGainz channel. Where we prove light weight biceps curls are the most effective strength builder known to mankind.

  • Hmm…. I think the lawsuit makes CrossFit look bad. They often bash competitors which is to be expected in the business world, but this isn’t the first time they have taken legal action against someone who has had a negative review about their certification and their program. I’ve even seen a youtube channel that reviewed the CrossFit program get taken down and threaten with a lawsuit. Me personally from the outside looking in i do view CrossFit as more dangerous than other programs but that’s just my outside opinion. I want to know more so after i wrap things up with my ISSA certification i want to obtain a certification through CrossFit so that way i will know for sure. I just think its kind of silly to bash a competitor and then when they turn around and retaliate again which should have been expected now you want to take legal action. 

  • This is the problem with the fitness industry….there’s waaaaaayyyyyyyy too much conflicting information out there when it’s way so much simpler than what’s out there: lift weights, eat clean, live clean, have a plan. Also, sound is ok, maybe work on video a little

  • A few other thoughts: @ 1:20 you mention injury stats and compare CrossFit to 3 sports. Olympic weightlifting and gymnastics have some of the highest injury rates among sports and Rugby is a full-contact sport. Not really the most useful frame of comparison for the over 99% of CrossFit practitioners who use CrossFit for fitness.

    My point is that the comparison on injury rates needs to be: Compare between CrossFit and other fitness/athletic performance training systems.

  • I am a certified strength and conditioning specialist through the NSCA. I think that the NSCA just simply published an article in their journal like many other articles are published. I don’t believe it is wise for crossfit to sue the NSCA I believe they are like night in day. Crossfit is a fitness trend much like many fitness trends and the NSCA’s mission is to facilitate the education and knowledge of strength and conditioning/fitness. I do not understand why crossfit mentions that the NSCA fails to define fitness. Fitness has been defined it is simply measured by the 6 health related physical fitness components aerobic capacity, muscular endurance, muscular strength, balance, flexibility, and body composition. These 6 components define fitness if you test within the parameters of what is considered fit based on norms of top level athletes and the average individual you are considered healthy and fit. I believe crossfit sees the NSCA as the same trainers at inshape balancing on those stupid bosu balls; this is a fallacy I have never used this as a fitness tool. I use what has been used for the longest time what major iron sports utilize weightlifting, powerlifting, strongman, and bodybuilding. These styles of training are utilized by strength coaches to enhance performance.

  • To be fair. Most P
    People hate crossfit because it rewards you for bad form, the people who does crossfit is the most annoying people and crossfit just looks stupid. There was a year they made people Squad while it was RAINING, THEY MADE THEN DO SQUADS OUTSIDE WHILE IT WAS RAINING!!!

  • Just throwing weights around in the gym and reading a few articles while not knowing your butt from a hole in the ground still sounds like some Crossfit certifications. That being said, it is always a stupid move to lie.

  • I’ve been at it for over 40 yeas……. CrossFit is still on my avoid list AND there are an awful lot of poor training advise generated from it. Court ruling or not…? Always follow the disclaimer….

  • Re the NSCA, so fucking stupid, but not surprised at all. They’re afraid of Greg Glassman taking over the fitness world, which is understandable, since that’s pretty much what he’s said (and shown, through action) that he wants to do. (Consider his conference of doctors, where he kind of said he wants to establish a new health care system in which docs can prescribe a fitness regimen for their patients — gee, I wonder which system of training the docs will be contractually obligated to recommend?)

    But I think we don’t really know the real injury rates of Crossfit. Elgintensity put it perfectly: Crossfit injuries are like fights at biker bars — if they’re just regarded as the norm, they’re much less likely to be reported. I myself was injured during my 3-month stint in Crossfit; I reported it to the gym, but I really doubt they made any kind of official record of it.

  • NSCA is 1000 times better.  CrossFit is just a marketing filled program.  They make millions convincing people to lift a barbell above your head.  100s of injuries have resulted from CrossFit.  How dare CrossFit even claim to come close to NSCA which is organized by professional and educated people not salesmen like crossfit.

  • Sound and video quality not good! It was more difficult to stay captivated by the video as it progressed than usual. The bit of editing you’ve had before helps keeps things at an entertaining pace. I’m sure when you’ve learned more about the new equipment you got it’ll be fine. Maybe consider using a mic like shredded sports science does? That thing is basically a watermelon on a stick.

  • Injury rate at our crossfit box seems to be very low. Good coaching with focus on technique in stead of weight is key in my opinion.

  • Thank you for this video!

    To start off my little essay and maybe explain my potential bias: I have been doing Crossfit for about 2 years now. And what should I say? It pretty much got me off the couch. I was never able to stick to any sport for more than a couple of weeks before. Now I’m hitting the gym 4-6 times a week. I have never been injured, I feel better and healthier than I ever have and I would argue that I can hit respectable lifts and went from being overweight to great shape (ask my mom!). So needless to say Crossfit, to me personally, has been kind of a life changer.

    Now, don’t get me wrong. There are problems with Crossfit! For example, you mentioned that the low entry point for being a trainer and owning a gym is a problem and I would largely agree on that. There are other legitimate points of criticism of course.

    However, while I hope that this ruling and the story around it will gain some traction in the fitness community I fear that the damage to Crossfits reputation has been done and is irreversable to a point. Some of the comments I read here kinda prove my point. “Still Crossshit lol” “That doesn’t change anything, it’s still a joke” and what have you.

    “The problem with the problem of Crossfit” (™) is that you can’t constructively talk about it. If you do Crossfit and admit it online people will automatically shit on you. You have already lost. “You can’t even do real pull ups”. “You probably have broken rotator cuffs”. “Haha they all do “catback” deadlifts”. “Your gym is the reason your local PT has a job.” I assure you that people who say this stuff have never even seen or been to a crossfit class. It’s just endless, mindless repition of something they heard somewhere from someone.

    Now where does all this hate come from? I don’t know man. People just like to jump on the hate train (especially online) but I ask anyone to think about it for a sec. Are you really advocating something positive when you demonize a training methodology that insentivizes people to get off their fucking couch and into the gym?

    There’s lots of beginners in my gym. Lots of moms and middle aged beergutted men. Grandmas and grandpas over 60.

    You know what these people would probably do if it wasn’t for Crossfit? You know what I would probably be doing if it wasn’t for Crossfit?
    Sit on the couch or try to do stuff by myself and I would still half rep pushups with bad form and claim that I can do 50 unbroken while destroying my shoulders.

    You mention that the L1 teaches 9 movements and that that doesn’t prepare you to be a coach. I agree, it doesn’t and I would also like to add that some of these movements are a complete waste of time as well (sumo deadlift high pull my ass). But still, wouldn’t you rather have a beginner be taught Deadlifts by an L1 coach than have them go to a commercial gym and just have a go at it? Or even worse, have them buy a barbell and try them at home without anyone ever being there to correct them?

    I’m just tired of the constant shit talk. Atleast I don’t live in the US, so it’s mostly online (Where I’m from you either do crossfit or you’ve never heard of it) but it doesn’t further the conversation or help either side in any way to always talk shit.

    You wanna talk about why you think kipping is a bad practice? Or why you think that the crossfit methodology is counterproductive? How it’s not a good idea to try to do Deadlifts and Handstand pushups as fast as possible?
    Let’s talk! I’m sure there is lots of legitimate criticism. Hell, I KNOW there’s stuff that sucks and that you SHOULD criticize. But maybe there are a few arguments that I or any other random dude that does crossfit can give that may convince you that, while it may not be “the perfect sport” it certainly isn’t the devil either.

    In the end we all just wanna be healthy and look good naked right?

  • Very little background noise for a change. Nice. However, your setup is a bit tiny and it dropping a lot of the lower tones, which is a pity since you’ve got such a nice baritone-tenor voice. An improvement for sure, but still needs some work. Look up increasing bass-tones and mid-tones in your app of choice. Also, consider dialing the music back a little. It distracts from your epic content. Peace.

  • I don’t hate crossfit, I hate (some) of the people that teach crossfit. I’ve heard stories, at least the people that have been to the gym in my area so take this with a grain of salt, of the trainers having people do big lifts like squats with a lot of weight for as many reps as they can while ignoring form. Like, they literally said to not worry about form just do as many as you can. Thats fucking bananas.
    I don’t personally do crossfit, but I get why people would, and if done correctly can be a good workout. With that being said, with how movement based and just the nature of crossfit, there needs to be a hell of a lot more to be certified to not just train this, but to have a certified gym. (In my opinion) even if all is done well, there will still be higher risk of injury in crossfit than weightlifting. Doesn’t mean people shouldn’t do it or enjoy themselves, just means we need to be aware of the risks involved and be more diligent.

  • I’m not sure how CrossFit will be able to prove causal harm and tie this to a financial compensation claim. NSCA liedso what? So much in the fitness industry from the consumer’s standpoint must be caveat emptor. I honestly didn’t know about the supposed CrossFit injury rates, but I never had a high opinion of CrossFit to begin with. I’m not a hater; I participate in a local CrossFit’s Murph every Memorial Day, but the difference from most CrossFit athletes is I train for it. There is a specificity of training that general CrossFit misses. When the workout changes every day, and most of the work is sub-maximal (3×50-10# bicep curlsslight exaggeration) or could be dangerous (continuing reps past the breakdown of good form on a full body exercise), CrossFit lacks credibility. In other words, CrossFit creates a “workout”, and this should not be confused with “training.” I suspect what will happen to NSCA is they will have to pay a settlement, and this might cause a bankruptcy so they’ll reorganize, debts will be written off, the board of directors and high-level executives will be sacked, and an independent authority inside the organization will become responsible for ethics and integrity in the organization.

  • I am a biology senior at Juniata College, where the trainers/ coaches are certified by the NSCA. I think I view things from an open mind set, having done workouts from the NSCA coaches my freshmen year and transitioning to CrossFit later on I can truly say that I get more out of CrossFit style workouts. My brother is also a baseball player at Concord University, and says the same thing along with many of his teammates. The gains I’ve seen are in speed, agility, endurance, raw strength, mobility, and flexibility. However, during my transition to CrossFit, the trainers and coaches at my school were very resistant, often calling out me in front of fellow student athletes saying “this is not what you do” among other things. I would try to explain to them how this style of fitness could be beneficial, and they shoot down any points made. I still think that there are great NSCA coaches out there, but it is good to stay open-minded and not close yourself off. From my experiences, I think that CrossFit should be more respected within the college athlete community, at least at my school.

  • The sound quality is very flat. Your previous sound system was far better. Pick up the bass on your sound system, and it might improve the quality. And I agree, change your lighting. You are way overlit especially with a white shirt on.

  • Okay, as someone that has done CrossFit, I have this to say.

    CrossFit is actually an excellent form of exercise, and training discipline. It’s basically circuit training.

    When CrossFit is done correctly, and under the watch of a good coach, there are few injuries.

    I had two coaches. One that is a CrossFit champ, and one that was an obese asshole who constantly complained about her sexless relationship with her girlfriend. The CrossFit champ heavily stressed correct technique, form, and progressive overload.

    The other coach was an idiot who caused me a serious injury.

    It heavily depends on the coach, and the individual.

  • Second video of yours I’ve watched, second video where you trash crossfit. Clearly you’re a hater, and “haters gonna hate” but gain some knowledge (maybe even some credentials) check out some statistics about what crossfit is doing to the fitness industry, as well as men and women in your own service, and then maybe you’ll have some sort of point worth listening to. In the mean time, thank you for your service…..but stick to the service. I pray to God you know more about the service than you do fitness and crossfit.

  • Thanks for your service. I’m talking not only about your service in the Navy, but also letting the world know what a bunch of garbage CrossShit is.

  • I saw the article and I didn’t even bother reading it. I don’t know much about the situation at hand but it seems like bullshit and I appear to be right.

  • Psycho-social does mean having �� friends. Not going to CrossFit is like not seeing your kids��‍♂️ CrossFit is cult, CrossFit is bad form performed at speed for max reps.

  • I’m mostly curious as to what will be the NCAA’s “Gold Standard” for certifying S+C coaches within their programs. If (when) the NSCA dissolves, what will happen to all the people with CSCS after their name?

  • Thank you for keeping us up to date and making that court info easy to understand. Glad CF won the case. But sounds unlikely that they will receive the 4mil they were awarded.

  • This is great news, for I’ve been defending CF for years now. But this doesn’t cover one of the biggest claims against CF, the “$1000 and a weekend” certification. I’ve been fortunate to have coaches who have been true health and fitness professionals holding multiple degrees and certifications; but the thought that somebody who has a weekend to kill can get cert’d and open a gym… gives me shivers

  • Interestingly enough the NSCA (which I was a member from1985-2012 ) is a very broad organization. It has no gym no facility, no singular “philosophy.” It’s founding was however collegiate strength and conditioning coaches (Boyd Epley) in the later 70’s.

  • I saw their NSCA’s essentials of personal training book in my local bookstore the other day and after conversions, the price went from $86 USD to $8 USD.

  • The NSCA is the major governing body of almost all sports performance in College, and professional sports. They’re gonna take a major hit monetarily but their reputation is still solid amongst all strength and conditioning coaches in the team sports world.

  • I have a slightly different perspective as a certified athletic trainer and CrossFit coach. The injury argument bothers me greatly looking at the amount of injuries I deal with as a CrossFit coach with 100+ members compared to the amount of injuries I deal with as an athletic trainer at a even a community college with 100+ athletes… the traditional sport athletes deal with a far more frequent injuries as well as far more serious injuries (overuse in addition to acute!). Hands down. 

    Why are we STILL talking about injuries? Most CrossFit injuries are overuse. Most overuse injuries are not a major issue if taken care of correctly. Most of these injuries occur during the first few months of CrossFit as an athlete is learning they have severe mobility and stability issues. CrossFit does not make these worse it makes these issues IMPROVE over time…. leaving the athlete less likely to hurt themselves in the future, in sports they play outside of the CrossFit gym, and improves lifestyle and longevity. 

    Safety is important but why don’t we start talking about the happiness of the individual? The results. Why CrossFit is growing, becoming so popular, creating physical activity motivation and adherence unlike anything else. THAT is what we should be talking about!!!

  • This ‘victory’ is reminiscent of the church of scientology ‘winning’ their cases. All legalese, on an issue of data retention, and paraded around like everything Crossfit has said is 100% correct and justified.
    Make no mistake, the ramifications for the scientific community from this case are huge. Unblinding studies and removing confidentiality of peer reviewers, suing an organisation behind the journal that published the article written by a grad student and not directly at the author in question sets absolutely dangerous precedents, but please, continue to chalk this up as a win for ‘science’ (aka a private company with zero research and not the non profit that actually publishes research)

  • In 2017, the NSCA was also being sued by their insurance carrier due to making false and misleading statements (as noted in 9:00) https://journal.crossfit.com/article/sitrep2-june-2018
    There’s some extremely angry language from the bench here. Wow.

  • Ooh Armen got a trim!!! Lookin good man!! I forgot to say, I really enjoyed your commentary at Filthy 150. I was in awe of the stats in your brain and you just do a phenomenal job!

  • This is proof that the entire sporting world is against us! The second fitness Civil War is near. We must elect Glassman as Supreme Fitness Commander with absolute authority over all things fitness, health, fitness, and medicine. Anyone who disagrees will be sent to internment camps for the final solution.

  • Hey you should check out Stevie Cohen she’s a power lifter who from what I can tell puts out good info and needs more reach but I really want to hear your opinion

  • I was just at the gym today looking at the board on the wall showing the trainers & their bios/certifications/etc and the funniest thing happened. There was a couple next to me touring the gym and they were like “I wonder what all those letters mean” �� The average person who comes to a commercial gym to seek personal training probably won’t care man.They’re just going to want a trainer “that knows what they’re doing”, but they don’t know the difference. But yeah.. the fact that they lied and got caught…. priceless.

    P.S. I’m surprised CrossFit still gets a bad rap from some of the fitness population these days. Sure there are some questionable exercises/programming/coaches… but that shit is not exclusive to CF.

  • I commend your efforts on your intelligent comparison of the NSCA and CrossFIt. Go Navy (and Army).  Support the NSCA and continue to spread the wise word.

  • Awesome insight, I always suggest CrossFit for overall fitness for my patients. I could not imagine CrossFit dropping Reebok, but I would like to see other apparel at the Games. I really like watching Regionals just for the fashion ;)…and Sibling for Sadie 2020.